I Like MSN, But...

**HHI Golf Guy** · 06-19-2005, 08:09 PM

...they still need some work on their algo. Two of my Hilton Head Island South Carolina sites rank #2 and #3 for "Arkansas real estate".

Here's the kicker - neither of those sites cracks the top 3 pages for "South Carolina real estate"

**Real Estate Forum** · 06-19-2005, 08:18 PM

this garbage is so scarry http://www.national-real-estate-dire...read.php?t=707 I hope they will start to care

**frobn** · 06-20-2005, 05:30 AM

Originally Posted by SiteTutor

this garbage is so scarry http://www.national-real-estate-dire...read.php?t=707 I hope they will start to care

I agree that MSN has a lot of garbage and you get a few strange results, but not nearly as much as Google. Do a search on Key West Real Estate in both MSN and Google. The top results in Google are mostly destination sites. At least MSN returns real estate sites. Generally I am a fan of Google, but their insistance that they can artificially simulate a natural search doesn't hold up. If they presented their alogos as a first year grad school research paper they would receive an F-.

**HHI Golf Guy** · 06-20-2005, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by frobn

Do a search on Key West Real Estate in both MSN and Google. The top results in Google are mostly destination sites.

This is a common occurrence in many resort markets. Due to the sheer volume of outbound and inbound links with local sites Google deems them authority sites. Hence, they rank well for most search terms using 'city name'.

**frobn** · 06-20-2005, 08:39 AM

Originally Posted by HHI Golf Guy

This is a common occurrence in many resort markets. Due to the sheer volume of outbound and inbound links with local sites Google deems them authority sites. Hence, they rank well for most search terms using 'city name'.

You just proved my point regarding the relationship between irrelevancy and linking. It's an artificial construct which doesn't hold up in science or the real world. If you think my example is an exception to a rule, browse over to webmaster world and read the thousands of responses to the Bourbon update. Google algos are broken. Instead of worshiping the alogos SEOs should offer valid criticism based on scientific principles.

**HHI Golf Guy** · 06-20-2005, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by frobn

You just proved my point regarding the relationship between irrelevancy and linking.

No, It was a comment based upon white papers regarding the Google algo. I'm not trying to prove anyone's point here. I am just stating what Google's own experts have commented upon.

...read the thousands of responses to the Bourbon update. Google algos are broken. Instead of worshiping the alogos SEOs should offer valid criticism based on scientific principles.

The Google algos are not broken - they are showing the results that Google wants to show based upon the algo parameters. Does that mean that some crud sites don't get filtered? Yes. Unless there are people hand editing ,illions of key phrases, theresults will always be this way regardless of the algo. The mathematics of algorithms - no matter how complex - do have their limitations.

As far as what "everyone else" is saying on any forum, you need to remember that even if one thousand people are posting on any topic, that still represents only a fraction of the web sites and search phrases.

**frobn** · 06-20-2005, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by HHI Golf Guy

No, It was a comment based upon white papers regarding the Google algo. I'm not trying to prove anyone's point here. I am just stating what Google's own experts have commented upon.

The Google algos are not broken - they are showing the results that Google wants to show based upon the algo parameters. Does that mean that some crud sites don't get filtered? Yes. Unless there are people hand editing ,illions of key phrases, theresults will always be this way regardless of the algo. The mathematics of algorithms - no matter how complex - do have their limitations.

As far as what "everyone else" is saying on any forum, you need to remember that even if one thousand people are posting on any topic, that still represents only a fraction of the web sites and search phrases.

I can many provide reasons based on research/evaluation studies of how google's alogos fail. I rather doubt it but perhaps they are showing the results google wants and even so the results are frequently irrelevant.

The fact that the alogos can and are being manipulated confounds the results. Every time Google tweaks, which seems to be happening more frequently, they may get rid of some spam, but it also adds additional variables with many additional unintended results. What's the saying, "throw the baby out with the bath water? That some relevant sites come up when searching google does not make their alogos valid. I would say that Yahoo and MSN get it right just as frequently and without all the drama. When MSN throws out garbage we say they need to improve, when google throws out garbage why don't we say they need to improve.

A few thousand complaints out of 100s of thousands of web master shows that the majority have accepted the status quo. Google is counting on that being the case. Now if only MSN and Yahoo will improve!

**HHI Golf Guy** · 06-20-2005, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by frobn

A few thousand complaints out of 100s of thousands of web master shows that the majority have accepted the status quo. Google is counting on that being the case. Now if only MSN and Yahoo will improve!

The overwhelming majority of web surfers (and web designers) have absolutely no idea about search engine rankings and SEO. Nor do they care.

Yahoo, MSN, and Google build search engines for the mindless masses - not tech people.

**Jade456** · 06-21-2005, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by HHI Golf Guy

Yahoo, MSN, and Google build search engines for the mindless masses - not tech people.

And with MSN's latest results they are proving your point. Bill better get his act together if he wants to keep any of the momentum they were getting. I can't believe the crap that shows up for searches, it making hotbot look good.

**Real Estate Forum** · 06-22-2005, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by HHI Golf Guy

The overwhelming majority of web surfers (and web designers) have absolutely no idea about search engine rankings and SEO. Nor do they care.

Yahoo, MSN, and Google build search engines for the mindless masses - not tech people.

I have to so much agree on that. The question is if the results are popular with the average web surfer. Sure there is a lot of spam with affiliate links, but do the searchers really care what they click as long as they get what they were looking for? As long as the search engines feel that the masses are pleased, they won't feel a need to change that