is a tv mounted on a wall a "built in appliance"?

**rtku** · 02-22-2008, 06:58 PM

Is the flat tv i have mounted on my wall with a tv mounting bracket a "built in appliance". (the buyers think it is) The tv was never asked for, or included in the mls description on the house. we are in the california bay area. Does anybody know any actual rulings? thanks for any input.

**TomAnto** · 02-22-2008, 07:42 PM

No.

When was the last time that a TV was a built in appliance? Never, unless expressly stated in the contract.

When was the last time a large painting was a built in fixture? Never, unless expressly stated in the contract.

The argument defies common sense and the buyers know it. Don't let them fool you into thinking otherwise.

**Mike Taylor** · 02-23-2008, 03:12 AM

The TV is not, the bracket has now become a fixture. Unless it was stated otherwise, the TV should be yours and the bracket should be the buyers.

**carlam** · 02-23-2008, 06:08 AM

Is this worth the Great Debate? Are you willing to let the buyer walk because they want the tv? If the market there is anything like the market here, leaving the tv is a small price to pay.

But for the sake of the debate, because I like a good one... (I am not an attorney) It is attached by the bracket to the structure. Not a "built-in," but it is attached just like blinds, curtain rods, bracket mounted speakers...

First, this should have been addressed at time of listing your home. A statement like "Wall mounted tv does not convey." That would have eliminated any debate at the end.

I would talk with the agents (both buyer and listing) and ask them to pitch in to buy you one. Neither of the agents want this deal to fall thru at this point.

**Malok** · 02-23-2008, 07:49 AM

Originally Posted by Mike Taylor

The TV is not, the bracket has now become a fixture. Unless it was stated otherwise, the TV should be yours and the bracket should be the buyers.

Exactly.

And I'd tell my buyers to stop being greedy douches.

Originally Posted by carlam

First, this should have been addressed at time of listing your home. A statement like "Wall mounted tv does not convey." That would have eliminated any debate at the end.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by carlam

I would talk with the agents (both buyer and listing) and ask them to pitch in to buy you one. Neither of the agents want this deal to fall thru at this point.

I disagree. The buyers are wrong. And I would not support compensating them (even with the used TV) just because they are gutsy/greedy/stupid, even if the agents bought you a new one.

I'm all about the greater good and doing what is fundamentally right - and even if it meant losing the deal, I would fight it to the death.

**TomAnto** · 02-23-2008, 08:25 AM

I'll post again, Malok is right. This is not a deal breaker to the buyer, they are just asking to ask. This signals to me that they are bold in their negotiation tactics. You let them win this one and they'll feel more comfortable asking for more.

Although I really like how agressive Malok is the saner side of me says be forceful but not violent in your assertions.

"To the death" makes me smile.

**Malok** · 02-23-2008, 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by TomAnto

Although I really like how agressive Malok is the saner side of me says be forceful but not violent in your assertions.

"To the death" makes me smile.

My remark was not to indicate how I would present the tone of my response to their request (at least initially), but rather to indicate my resolve.

I wouldn't budge on it. Period. Even if it meant losing the deal, just because its fundamentally unfair.

I'd only ramp up the presentation side of things, if they continued to press the matter.

**RobM** · 02-23-2008, 02:41 PM

I think I will chime in since I like a good debate....but I will need to double check in my real estate law books in Florida but I believe that if it is connected to house in this fashion, it is in fact a fixture....but again I will need to double check.

On top of that, being in a buyers market, if I had the buyers, I would tell them to ask for a ton of stuff and settle for a few, and if I had the sellers, I would have striken these things in the listing agreement to begin with, but if I hadnt, or they added it after, I would ask them if the TV is worth the loss of the sale, if it was, then say no, and if not, then just give it to them.

This all depends on which side of this contract I am on.

**Jim B** · 02-23-2008, 05:22 PM

I just went though this, in New Jersey, according to the attorneys involved in the deal, neither the TV or the bracket are part of the structure and don't go with the house unless the offer expressly states otherwise.

**RobM** · 02-23-2008, 08:10 PM

I figure I will chime in again. I didnt have handy any of my Florida books but happen to come across one of my MA books (I sold in MA as well) and the TV is infact a fixture if it is attached to the fabric of the house...since the bracket is attached to the wall and the bracket is attached to the tv, at least in MA, the TV is in fact a fixture, unless specfically excluded in the listing...again, there will be differences in the definitions from state to state I am sure. You may want to call your legal hotline for your MLS and ask the question