Thread: is there anything fishy about this situation?

In real estate, time is of the essence. Neither your agent or the sellers agent made a mistake. You did not make up your mind until it was too late.

But do not let this discourage you. Instead it may have been good since you took so long to make up your mind. If it took you that long to make up your mind it may not have been the right home for you.

And you are correct that buyers are not generally considered serious until they make a written offer.

And no matter how bad you want a home, if you do not make an offer, no one is to blame except maybe you. Why would you think the agents did something wrong? Just because things did not go your way does not mean the agents did something wrong.

Originally Posted by markbrian

Why would you think the agents did something wrong? Just because things did not go your way does not mean the agents did something wrong.

First of all, I'm not accusing anyone of doing anything wrong, I'm asking the question "how does this normally work?". How would I possibly know how it normally works? AS I already mentioned I'm a first time buyer. This is the first and only time I've had any experience with real estate.

Should I not be surprised to find selling houses works on a first-come-first-served basis? Say the offer was for less than asking price but above the number the owner told his agent he would settle for, if I were informed of the offer, I could have offered a higher number and the owner would have gotten more money.

It would have been in the seller's interest to let my agent and the agents of anyone else who expressed interest in the house know there was an offer on the table and I need to get mine in that day if I want it to be considered. Sellers would benefit from a bidding competition amongst potential buyers, and buyers would benefit by knowing what the competition is and how close the house is from being taken off the market.

That may not be how it actually works, I don't really know, that is my question. But it's certainly not an unreasonable question to ask and to chuck it up to me just assuming the agents did something wrong because it didn't go my way is, I gotta say, kind of unnecessarily defensive, don't you think?

Originally Posted by timsea81

but my question is should I feel cheated? Did the seller's agent screw up? Did my agent screw up? Is there any way to know?

Sorry but in my opinion when someone asks if someone screwed up then they are saying they did something wrong. Not being defensive just honest. You are upset that you hesitated and someone else did not. It is understandable you are upset, but the person to be upset with is you. I would suggest not making the title to your conversation "is there something fishy" which would imply to most you think someone did something wrong.

You could have made an offer. You did not. Could have, might have, should have, would have.... but didn't. The seller's agent cannot wait on you to make up your mind, he submits offers as they are recieved. What if he waited and you never made an offer. Offers are to be presented as soon as the listing agent gets them.

Now if your agent had told the seller's agent you were considering making an offer, it might be different. Not told the seller's agent that you were interested but that you actually wanted to make an offer. Then the seller's agent might have called your agent, should have called your agent, etc. But there is a major difference between a couple of days to think about it and a month of looking at other homes. A bird in the hand is better than 2 in the bush.

Lets say the offer that was accepted was less and you were called. Just because you would have paid more does not mean the other buyer would not have also paid more. Maybe the other buyer would have paid much more than you. It could have ended up in a bidding war. That would have made the seller happy. And possibly cost you more money.

In the future, if it is what you want, where you want it, and has all the features you want, etc etc--do not hesitate to make an offer. Hesitate to jump into a bidding war because you suddenly feel pressure because there is another buyer. Never up your offer above what you would otherwise pay just because there is another buyer.

And yes it is first come in real estate. Time is of the essence. Good deals go quick, even in this market.

Originally Posted by markbrian

Sorry but in my opinion when someone asks if someone screwed up then they are saying they did something wrong.

It is not a matter of opinion what I meant when I asked the question, I either meant it rhetorically as an accusation or I meant it sincerely as a question where "nothing is fishy here that's just how the market works" would be an acceptable answer to me. The latter is the case here. Your opinion does not affect my intent.

I have to ask the question, if the conclusion is "a good agent would have been able to make sure you were aware of the offer", I need to know that. If the conclusion is "no one made a mistake here" and I accept that, I am in no way contending that someone made a mistake by asking the question.

Originally Posted by markbrian

The seller's agent cannot wait on you to make up your mind, he submits offers as they are recieved.

Nor would I expect him to. The situation I was considering may be a possibility is one where he would alert my agent that the owner was entertaining an offer.

Originally Posted by markbrian

Now if your agent had told the seller's agent you were considering making an offer, it might be different. Not told the seller's agent that you were interested but that you actually wanted to make an offer.

So it comes down to the difference between "interested" and "considering making an offer". To most people, that sounds like the same thing.

In my case my agent was aware that this house was #1 on my list so far, but I was still too naive about whether it was a good price and what exactly I wanted in a house to make the decision. My question is whether a good agent would realistically be able to keep his client in the loop regarding offers on their #1 consideration in a situation where he is not sure his client is going to finalize that decision or keep looking.

Originally Posted by markbrian

It could have ended up in a bidding war.

Yes, and that would obviously have problems of it's own, but that is a separate issue than what my expectation should have been regarding being notified of another offer. The seller's agent would want a bidding war, but is it fair to assume they would try to start one by letting me know about the other offer? Is it safe to assume that the agent WOULD do that if they knew about my possibly casual interest in the place?

Basically, what is the norm for these types of situations throughout the industry? Would only a really excellent agent who also got lucky be able to let me know? Would He have to get lucky? Would he have to make a mistake if I wasn't informed? That is my question.

In your own words you were casually interested and you expected the listing agent to call your agent. You last looked at the property 2 weeks ago but had not made an offer and you expect the listing agent to call you? Why?

Interested is not the same as making an offer. Offers lead to executed contracts which lead to closings. Casually interested leads to...2 showings and not an offer. And an upset first time buyer, that seems to regret not making an offer.

To answer your rhetorical / sincere question: Nothing fishy happend. You hesitated, someone else pulled the trigger. You could have, might have, maybe even feel like you should have-but you didn't make an offer.

Maybe your agent could have called the listing agent and stated the level of your interest-#1 on your list but a first time buyer that is scared/unsure. Did your agent make such a phone call? If your agent did make such a phone call then the listing agent would likely call your agent.

Do not expect a listing agent to call every agent that has shown a home in the past 2 weeks to a month whenever an offer is submitted. Unless the agent representing the potential buyer has told the listing agent something to warrant a phone call. It appears from what you have said that you & your agent did nothing to warrant such a phone call.

Sorry if I was blunt with you but that is just the way I am. No sugar coating it.

Originally Posted by markbrian

In your own words you were casually interested and you expected the listing agent to call your agent. You last looked at the property 2 weeks ago but had not made an offer and you expect the listing agent to call you? Why?

I did not expect the agent to call me. I asked a question to determine the availability of the information I wish I had been given to the agent that is representing me. Again, raising a question is not a threat to anyone, and certainly is not a threat against you, so rather than getting defensive as if I've accused you of something, either answer my question or shut up.
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Originally Posted by markbrian

Interested is not the same as making an offer.

In YOUR own words "Now if your agent had told the seller's agent you were considering making an offer, it might be different."

enough said

Originally Posted by markbrian

To answer your rhetorical question: Nothing fishy happend. You hesitated, someone else pulled the trigger.

If you had read my response armed with a proper understanding of the English language, you would realize that my question was NOT rhetorical, but sincere. You assumed it was rhetorical when you jumped to the conclusion I was accusing an agent of something. Then you ran to this stranger's defense for some reason I do not now, nor likely ever will understand.

Originally Posted by markbrian

Do you expect a listing agent to call every agent that has shown a home in the past 2 weeks to a month whenever an offer is submitted just because someone might, maybe, someday, make an offer.

Again, for about the 9th fucking time already, no, I did not expect anything of the sort, I got myself into a situation and that situation lead me to regret not asking this question earlier. The question is I think has been stated pretty clear already, and it requires more than one opinion. So far the only opinion is from someone who obviously just wants to make fun of me for not knowing anything about his job. You probably don't know anything about my line of work either, but if someone comes to me curious about it, the last thing I'd do would be to try to make him look stupid by accusing him of not knowing anything about a subject he never claimed to.

Trying again, hopefully you won't get pissed or my browser/computer lock up again

Originally Posted by timsea81

I looked at a house for the first time one month ago, days after it was first put on the market. I expressed interest to the realtor I'm working with, but as it was one of the first houses I saw, I kept looking for another couple weeks. 2 weeks later (2 weeks ago), I came back for a second look (now I look really interested). Today I told the realtor that I wanted to make an offer, and as we were putting things in motion he came back with bad news: The house is now under agreement. Someone beat me to it. I don't know what the accepted offer was for, but I probably would have been willing to pay more than the other guy to get it. But I'm not even being offered a chance to one-up the other guy. Is this normal?

Yes, once the offer is accepted, it is too late for other offers to be accepted. The seller should continue to see them, in my state anyway. You can submit a back up offer, but it is not the best negotiating place for you.

Originally Posted by timsea81

How does the bidding process normally work?

So many different factors and ways it would be hard to answer. But in general, the seller looks at submitted offers, and the listing agent would call agents that had said my client is thinking about making an offer/getting ready to submit an offer. Not always call another agent that has a client that needs to think about it since time is of the essence regarding the first offer. Also some agents/buyers see this as a method to falsely get a potential buyer to make an offer by claiming there is already an offer on the table.

Originally Posted by timsea81

If I express interest, shouldn't I have been notified that another offer was put in so I could put mine in too?

Expressed Interest? After you said in your later post you told your agent that you might or might not make an offer, it is understandable that the listing agent would call your agent if your agent told the other agent that information. And again how did the listing agent know you were interested? Most agents would call if I knew it meant another offer, but it really depends on what your agent said to the listing agent. Also it might have had to do with the listing agent/company getting both sides of the commission.

Originally Posted by timsea81

Wouldn't the seller want the other interested people to know they've had an offer in hopes someone else offers more?

Absolutely. But since you never made an offer, and it had been 2 weeks since the last time you looked at the home, the seller and the listing agent might have doubted how serious you were. Unless your agent talked with the listing agent before the accepted offer was submitted and said specifically to call if an offer is submitted. It is not in your best interests to wait until another offer is submitted to submit yours, since it means that bidding war starts.

Originally Posted by timsea81

How can this happen?

You never made an offer! You said you might/might not to your agent. What info your agent relayed to the listing agent makes a difference. Hence why I was asking questions such as "Why" -not to be smart or condescending.

Originally Posted by timsea81

my question is should I feel cheated? Did the seller's agent screw up? Did my agent screw up? Is there any way to know?

Should you feel cheated-NO, You learned a lesson in hesitating when making a decision in real estate. You still might get the property since it may not close. Did the agents screw up? We cannot say for sure but it is possible they could have done things differently or in a manner that would have made you happier. However this may not have been fair to the other buyer.

I am sorry if you saw a post that was not finished and I was still editing when my computer locked up which may have upset you. But I do not apologize for telling you the truth, you waited too long and lost. I am sorry you did that, but I do not apologize for saying it. I mean I just had to do it again, how about no profanity this time

I think I may have been able to sift through that to obtain a bit or two of useful information. I'm hesitant to say 'thank you', since you were such a dick through it all, but nonetheless, your opinion is noted.

If anyone else has anything else to say about the subject please share. As the question is more than likely one of judgement on the performance of the agents involved and I'm sure there are many variables left unsolved given the information that I've shared (which is all that I know), I would appreciate as many opinions as possible. Have you been in a similar situation before as an agent? As a buyer? As a seller? Please share you knowledge and experience if you have some.

At the time the other offer was put in (the date of which I have no real knowledge of... I'm just guessing), I was interested but not certain. If I put in an offer, that's a commitment to buy, assuming the inspection doesn't uncover anything unexpected. I wasn't there yet. I was still getting a sense of what to expect for my money in the area.

I'm trying to get a sense of what goes on between agents in the sale of a house. Is it just a matter of calling the sellers agent? Are there any systems in place to notify agents representing 'interested' clients that haven't committed? If I am 'interested' but not certain on a place (for example if the search comes down to two places and I haven't yet decided which to pick) should I go ahead and put an offer in on both? Of course not, I would end up wasting money on the good faith payment I made on the house I ultimately decide against.

What you're saying is basically that until I make that commitment I'm a ***** and no one cares or is obligated to tell me anything. Fine. But would an agent that is not as big of a "throw the book at any noob to feel better about himself" dick as you maybe think otherwise? If he were to think not-so-dickishly, would he have to rely on the seller's agent to get all his information? Is it public knowledge what offers are on the table? Do agents have access to information on an offer that was just put in, that mine might have missed? If the seller's agent submits an offer to the owner, does my agent have any way of knowing other than to call the agent constantly to see how the sale is progressing?

From what you said the answer to all this is "no", but I'd like some other opinions, preferably from people whos intent is to help rather than feel good about themselves by proving he knows more about his area of expertiece than a noob.

Originally Posted by timsea81

Should I not be surprised to find selling houses works on a first-come-first-served basis? Say the offer was for less than asking price but above the number the owner told his agent he would settle for, if I were informed of the offer, I could have offered a higher number and the owner would have gotten more money.

In NC it is illegal for an agent to tell a buyer there is an offer on the house without the permission of the seller. I advise my sellers not to inform anybody about any offers we have.

Originally Posted by timsea81

It would have been in the seller's interest to let my agent and the agents of anyone else who expressed interest in the house know there was an offer on the table and I need to get mine in that day if I want it to be considered. Sellers would benefit from a bidding competition amongst potential buyers, and buyers would benefit by knowing what the competition is and how close the house is from being taken off the market.

Not necessarily. In this market, with so much available for sale, most of the time a buyer will walk away if they find out there is already an offer on the house.

Plus, if they tell you there is an offer, then it would only be fair to tell the buyer who already wrote the offer that there is another offer coming. This scenario has the possibility to scare away both buyers. I have seen it and can show you a condo that is still on the market because the listing agent tried to get two serious buyers to compete and they both walked.

A bird in the hand can go to closing.