Could this happen to you?

[ConsiderThis]

Because it doesn't look like many people go to the legal forum, I'm posting this here.

My home was foreclosed by a mortgage lender who doesn't hold the mortgage.

If I hadn't filed Chapter 13 the day before the courthouse steps sale, I wouldn't be in my home right now.

And if I hadn't decided to list, my friend a Realtor would not have gotten the title binder which shows that the mortgage lender who foreclosed does not hold the mortgage.

I think this situation reflects corruption.

I don't know what to do, either. (Though I feel better since I did the web page and began writing about this on forums.)

http://www.health-boundaries-bite.com/Fraud.html

[sarahk]

Hi Karen

That sounds like madness and it must be incredibly frustrating trying to work through all the issues.

I'm not familiar with how the USA mortgage scene works apart from that scene in "indecent proposal" where the rich guy buys the other guys mortgage (#### that, I decide who I get finance through).

Yes, talk to your lawyer! Can you see what their motivation is? Is there something special about your property that they are trying to secure it for - next to a proposed development etc in which case I'd be claiming malicious intent. Have you just broken up with the CEO of the mortgage company and s/he isn't happy about it, or the brother of the CEO of the mortgage company? You need to find out what their motivation is. There will be one! Or is it possible that some drongo office clerk has typed the wrong address and it's an honest mistake?

Good Luck!

Sarah

[ConsiderThis]

Hi Sarah,
Yes, I think you've rather got a bead on it.

The thing is that I have a loan with a rather aggressive lender. They charged me more than the good faith estimate, etc. And they have you sign that they barely need to do any kind of court foreclosure.

But this is a far more main stream lender.

Where you cotton on to the underlying problem, I think, is when you ask why...

Back when I was still living in the hydrogen sufide, I had a problem with my bank account at Wells Fargo, I can't quite remember how it worked, but it was something like I'd done a stop payment, and they paid it anyway, then when I complained they sent back two payments, which of course I did not want because being two months behind triggers (or just about triggers) foreclosure.

So, one of the things that often goes, when brain cells and brain function go, is the ability to switch to being diplomatic when you are feeling angry.

So.... I got the address of the head guy of Wells Fargo and wrote him saying that unless he set it right I was going to sue him and have him served in his office.

That's why I think this happened. Wells Fargo knew I had a complaint about them, which could have translated into a counterclaim, so they got the former lender to do it: GE Mortgage.

What I don't know how to do, is address this, though.

I've had major bad luck with lawyers.

I had though one was going to take the personal injury part of my privy pit thing, but then I spoke with that lawyer's friend (lawyer) about my foreclosures and bankruptcy and I didn't take care with how the interview was structured... so I didn't stay thoughtfully on topic, and I'm feeling certain he told his friend and thereby weirded out the possibilit of the first lawyer taking the personal injury case.

Whew.

Thank you for helping me think about this.

[sarahk]

You really want to keep this property right?

Yes
get an independant lawyer, get documentation, start a diary of everything that's happened. be totally upfront with the hissyfit you had, provide documentation. It might not be pretty but you can't hide it so don't try use the media if you have to
No
Can you sell it before they foreclose? thereby ensuring you get the best possible price, pay them off and hold onto your capital Can you refinance and pay off the original loan meaning there is nothing to recall?

Keep your head. Lawyers are expensive but having your hand forced here might cost you more!

Sarah

[ConsiderThis]

Boy, you think like I did before I had brain damage.

(If you have lines on your fingernails or are losing your moons, get the methylcobalamin, because that's what began undoing me... it happens quite slowly. I'm 60.)

I have two other properties, and my plan is to sell them if I have to, which I think I may have to.

The problem I've had with lawyers is that they just ... let me down ... but, I have so little cognitive function some of the time.

I do think that this input from you will help me communicate with the lawyers, tomorrow.

I am grateful to you.

Thank you.

[Las Vegas Homes]

This is quite common. Most mortgage companies sell their notes off daily. I am only guessing but I would say that the note holder you thought you had, filed foreclosure and bundled your loan in with others and sold it off to another company. By the time you got the note holder info to file Ch 13 you saw it was a different company. I had one of my mortgages a few years ago sold twice before I was even done signing the closing papers.

As for them quoting you in your good faith a set of figures and then those changing at the closing table, that happens quite often as well and they are not breaking the law....Yet. You should have got up and walked away from the closing and used another lender.

I do believe that you got the bad end of the deal but in my humble opinion I do not believe you have any recourse against this mortgage company or wells fargo. No attorney is going to take this on for cheap or contingent bases in my opinion, I personaly do not see any real damages you could get in a law suit from just what you have posted here...sorry...but this is maybe why you are having trouble getting an attorney to take on your case.

[sarahk]

I don't think damages are the issue here as much as securing her property and preventing the foreclosure.

On a side issue how is it that someone can shop around, find the lending institution they want to deal with and then be shunted off without notice?
You guys accept that level of customer service?
Doesn't the amount of legal paperwork make it unviable?

Elsewhere on the web I have found websites for mortgage providers etc all vying for business and trying to run the web side of it well. Why bother looking good when there must be a huge level of mistrust associated with the industry.

We hear about the low interest rates and the long fixed rate periods enjoyed by US Investors but somehow I think I'd rather have certainty and credibility. The market down here is intensely competitive and I don't think a lender would get away with treating investors or homeowners so shabbily.

[ConsiderThis]

Dear Las Vegas, as a matter of fact the sheet they give you with specfic charges is binding. It was a two part deal, and the one half refunded me the difference.

You are missing the point in the foreclosure by a mortgage lender who didn't hold the mortgage.

What I am talking about is that just as I cannot divorce you, because I'm not married to you, so to the lender who doesn't hold the mortgage can't forclose it.

Do you see how that works?

The damages part of it is that the lawyer lied.

[ConsiderThis]

Hi Las Vegas,
The damages are related to how the lawyer lied. Lawyers are officers of the court. They are supposed to tell the truth. When she wrote the complaint, she knew that what she was doing was not true, yet she did it anyway.

I only just got the title binder yesterday, so I haven't tried to get a lawyer about this at all.

I couldn't get a lawyer years ago when IRS took all my money.
I couldn't get a lawyer before that when I wasn't paid my commissions for selling advertising, because the lawyers said that $10,000 wasn't worth it for them. But for me, that year, that was half of what would have been my income.

When I first had the privy pit problem,lawyer after lawyer told me that they'd take my case if I'd slipped in a store, or if it were a car accident... but that this was not such an easy kind of case.

Now, since there was the telly coverage, there is a lawyer looking at it.

You know what's sort of funny? My horoscope today was that lots of people were going to misunderstand me.

lol

[Las Vegas Homes]

Dear Las Vegas, as a matter of fact the sheet they give you with specfic charges is binding.

If it was a good faith sheet showing you the cost and charges along with the interest rate...at this very moment that is not binding, it even states on the sheet " This is An Estimate ". I own a mortgage banking company and I can assure you 100% it is Not binding. It is however sad and as I mentioned quite common to do this which is called bait and switch.

HUD at this moment is trying to get laws passed that when I mortgage company gives you a good faith that they must stick to the fee's and cost they have quoted, but at this time that is not the case.


You are missing the point in the foreclosure by a mortgage lender who didn't hold the mortgage.

If I understood you, you were saying that when they filed for foreclosure on you and you filed ch 13 you found out this mortgage company did not hold the note to your home? is this correct?

If so then as I mentioned mortgage companies can start a foreclosure and sell your note off to another mortgage company and the company that buys it follows through with the foreclosure. This is quite common.


What I am talking about is that just as I cannot divorce you, because I'm not married to you, so to the lender who doesn't hold the mortgage can't forclose it.

Mortgage companies can hire other companies to foreclose on you, also several of these mortgages companies have a lot of DBA's that they do business under.

Did you know that one company can service your mortgage while another holds the note? As I said I do believe you got the raw end of the deal and I do feel very bad for you. I really wish you could take this mortgage company to the cleaners but I dont believe you can with what you have explained here.


The damages part of it is that the lawyer lied

If the lawyer lied to you then that is a case of malpractice and the attorney should be sued. However you will find it very difficult to find an attorney that will take on another case against a fellow attorney. The one that will is going to charge you and arm and a leg to handle the case.

My first suggestion would be if the attorney lied to you file a complaint with his/hers state bar.

[Las Vegas Homes]

I don't think damages are the issue here as much as securing her property and preventing the foreclosure.

If I understood her, the property has already had the foreclosure filed and she filed bankruptcy to prevent the lender from foreclosing. Once Ch 13 is filed the courts stop the foreclosure and she has to make up the back payments to the lender through the courts and her trustee.

On a side issue how is it that someone can shop around, find the lending institution they want to deal with and then be shunted off without notice? You guys accept that level of customer service?
Doesn't the amount of legal paperwork make it unviable?

No we dont except it but this is why we always say buyer beware. There are a lot of good mortgage compaies out there and a lot of bad ones. Its hard to figure out sometimes but this is where a consumer hasd to do their research on the company. My advice always is when you get to the closing table if the fees from the mortgage company have changed a great deal ...Walk Away!!


Elsewhere on the web I have found websites for mortgage providers etc all vying for business and trying to run the web side of it well. Why bother looking good when there must be a huge level of mistrust associated with the industry.

There is a huge level of mistrust in the mortgage industry. There are a lot of very fast talkers in that industry.

Nothing on the mortgage side is binding until the closing paperwork is signed by the consumer at the title company or attorneys office. Just food for thought, did you know that a mortgage company can give you a full approval for your loan and send the money to the title company and deny the loan before the funds are issued.

[ConsiderThis]

One of the problems in this kind of thing is that so little is understood about foreclosure.

First, people should know how long it takes. It takes a long time. That is useful to know because in many cases there might be time to cure the deficiency.

Second, foreclosure ends in a Decree of Foreclosure and once that has happened then in about 6 weeks they sell the property on the Courthouse steps.

The sale is not complete however until after the Court has confirmed the sale.

My condo was sold on the Courthouse steps in 1997 and I filed bankruptcy before the Court confirmed the sale and I got it back.

The saying, "Time is money" is highly relevant in this kind of thing. They were taking my property while I had tetanus, and plus my disability, I should have had time accommodation.

When the court refused to deal with the fact that the mortgage lender who was foreclosing did not hold the mortgage, it just made a huge mess and it was prejudicial.

I have to go work on this.

I can see that you want to convince me about the lawyer's position. However, the lawyer was lying. Wells Fargo was not servicing the mortgage, the mortgage had been transferrede to Wells Fargo, if you read the title binder you will see this.

I really don't have time to argue with you about this since you don't seem to be able to grasp the actual facts.

If you have lines on your fingernails, that may be while the facts that are more toward the end are harder for you to remember.

If you do have lines, look into methylcobalamin. Seriously. That is how my brain damage began: extended low B12.

[ConsiderThis]

Yes, talk to your lawyer! Can you see what their motivation is?

Good Luck!

Sarah
Hi Sarah, As a result of your help, the way you helped me see this more clearly, I was able to send an email to the lawyers who are looking at my personal injury case re the privy pit, which I was afraid they weren't going to take... too complicated.

I'm going to send the same explanation I wrote to you, to the other lawyers, so that they can see what's going on.

Thank you so very much.

[Las Vegas Homes]

I am sorry Considerthis you feel as if I am arguing with you. I do feel for your situation and hope that you get it resolved.

[ConsiderThis]

I am sorry Considerthis you feel as if I am arguing with you. I do feel for your situation and hope that you get it resolved.
I feel as if you didn't quite get the facts because you were convinced by the lying lawyer.

Sarahk helped me because she asked the appropriate question, which I was having a hard time seeing, "Why?"

Once I had that bit of it in hand, I was able to write to a lawyer who was suggested to me by the lawyer who did my Chapter 11 settlement hearing some years ago. I had a confirmed chapter 11 plan, pro se. But I couldn't have done it without the settlement hearing because of how complex it is.

You see, I'm not stupid, I just have this disability which was initially brought on by extended low B12, and then worsened by the hydrogen sulfide.

It is just soooo important, if you have lines on your fingernails, to know that it is serious and can lead to devastating nerve damage.

[Real Estate Forum]

My horoscope today was that lots of people were going to misunderstand me.

lol
haha my horoscope has never said that, but I think it's written in my stars anyways.

[ConsiderThis]

I'm having such a bad day that I really really appreciate the smile you created.

:)

[Real Estate Forum]

I wished I could give you some good info myself, but I'm a web developer and don't know anything about real estate :)

[ConsiderThis]

I think the web is the way to go.

I'm having a very bad day. My kitty killed a baby Mourning dove last night. I think she went up the tree and took it out of the nest. (There wasn't any wind, so I think that getting it out of the nest herself was the only way.) the mother mourning dove got sort of trapped on the ground last year when she was a fledgling. It was amazing, a blue jay was making a lot of noise to try to scare my kitty away, I guess. And the mother was pretending she had a broken wing so the kitty would chase her. The little bird was sitting totally still. She looked at me with the biggest eyes, but did not move. then the mother flew away. So I picked the little bird up and put her in the tree, and kept my kitty in the house. She stayed in the tree for about a day, then she was gone.

but later this small, but grown mourning dove came to the tree and sat and watched an watched me one day.

So now I'm all sad because I think the baby bird that was killed was hers.

And my kitty got a slightly bigger baby mourning dove some months ago. Way bigger, like probably just beginning to fly or think about flying.

Or, I could be this depressed because I'm having a premonition of the judge taking some step to help the foreclosure for whatever company.

[Real Estate Forum]

OK sorry, but I didn't get all the info on this. I'm sure I can get some legal people to come in here and give some advice.

Please give us the details and details only (leave out stuff about the kitty, even though I feel bad for the dove's mom ;) )

Let's see if we can get someone to help you with this :)

Mike

[ConsiderThis]

Oh, that would be good.

Only I'm having such a bad day that it's hard to think there's any hope.

The fraud page is pretty clear:
(I hope)
http://www.health-boundaries-bite.com/Fraud

[Real Estate Forum]

Thanks, I have asked here (http://legalserviceonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6#post6 ) and here (http://www.courtforum.com/showthread.php?p=403#post403) for now since I am a forum addict :cool:

[ConsiderThis]

Mike, thank you so much.

I'm sorry I'm being so weedy today.

The underlying problem, so to speak, is the privy pit. That's how I got the brain damage I have now... the hydrogen sulfide.

I had thought that if enough people visited my privy pit page, that the numbers would somehow turn it all around.

But the page got viewed enough to get telly news coverage (locally) and when I saw myself on telly I started crying. Others didn't see the dysfunction I saw, because they didn't know how my mind used to function.

The news man asked me some question about how the hydrogen sulfide affected me, and I said it made me "not feel well." Which sounds like I was saying it made me feel sick. But really that was what came out when I wanted to say that it affected my nerves and made me numb, so that I could not feel very well.

I used to be really bright. The therapist who gave me the neuro-psych tests said I'm still bright, but that my mind doesn't function to use the brightness the way it did.

Okay, so too much digression.

Here's the privy pit link:
http://www.health-boundaries-bite.com/Old-Outhouse-Pit.html

When I posted my: at wit's end
message on several forums, I was getting over a hundred hits a day, but then that brought about the news coverage, which was very good, only that made me cry so much that I got a bad cough. Foolish to cry like that.

Here's the text of the post, in case you know some places to post it:
I am at my wit's end.

My condo bedroom was built over part of an old privy pit (raw sewage).

I am sure that if people were concerned, not just for me but for what this means for everyone, that something would be done.

Please look at my web page,
http://www.health-boundaries-bite.com/Old-Outhouse-Pit.html

and pass this on.

[Real Estate Forum]

Are there any grounds to contest the foreclosure?

[ConsiderThis]

That's the whole point of my posting the title binder.

The mortgage company that instituted the foreclosure proceedings did not then, nor do they now, hold the mortgage.

I think this has got to be rather like me divorcing Tom Cruise.

[Real Estate Forum]

Tom Cruise is a freak. lol

[ConsiderThis]

Which explains why I divorced him.

:)

[Real Estate Forum]

I'm glad to see that the Church of Scientology was cool with that :cool:

[ConsiderThis]

Well, like the mortgage company I was actually doing it for the money, so no, the church wasn't that cool with it.

:)

[Real Estate Forum]

I hope Katie will make him happy enough so he won't be trying to get back with you ;)