Need site design thoughts... [Archive]

Canadian Realtor

07-11-2005, 09:36 PM

I have designed my new site. I am at a point where I have become 'hazy' about it all...

The page will be centered in a browser...

I would like some outside feedback:

http://www.rodfriesen.com

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. The image and some links are about all I am thinking of putting on the home page, basically letting people choose one of three main options:

1. Buyer's Info
2. MLS Search
3. Seller's Info

I threw my business card design on as a way of branding myself.

What are your thoughts about:

The design
The layout
What the content should be
What should I include on the quick links navigation

Thanks.

BCEquities

07-11-2005, 11:15 PM

Just a quick look at the site and it looks good. The image you have up as a demo has a basic layout that can be followed, looks easy to navigate. I can tell you more about useablity when you have it up.
Possibly think about "Featured Properties" section. Maybe have one home you list on your landing page that changes daily, weekly, or however. Just an idea......
I would also think about adding a mortgage calulator, so home buyers can see their spending ablities. It could be small but just something else to help your clients and keep them on your site.

Do the same for me, if you could. Give me some feedback on one of my sites: http://www.applytorefinance.com

We are always updating the site and would like to hear what you think....

Canadian Realtor

07-12-2005, 08:03 AM

Thanks BCE,

Some of those will be addressed. I just went back into real estate and wanted to get my website up to par before really going gung ho into landing business. In other words, I have no featured properties (hehe).

The mortgage calculator will be there, in the quick links.

Was my business card too much?

Jiany

07-22-2005, 09:12 PM

Hi Canadian Realtor
On your site I would add a link that say deals, and pitures with a house that was bought at a low price and re sold at a higher price. This will give your clientel a reason to want to call you. And it will make you stand out from the rest.Late

HHI Golf Guy

07-23-2005, 06:37 AM

On your site I would add a link that say deals, and pitures with a house that was bought at a low price and re sold at a higher price. This will give your clientel a reason to want to call you. And it will make you stand out from the rest.

Be VERY CAREFUL how you word any information regarding returns on investment. Real estate law allows you to state facts, but it is a violation of real estate law to promise or even imply that future gains can be made from real estate transactions.

Duncan Pollock

07-26-2005, 09:12 PM

Well Rod, I'm going to have the nerve to be rather unkind.
But why -- just why -- would anyone think of contacting you?
You give them no information about yourself, what you've done, or what you're capable of doing. All they get is a list of comunity events or a link to MLS databases -- none of which is likely to result in a call to you (about real estate, at least), is it?
Admittedly, you're at the starting point in creating (and filling out) your website. But, surely it has to have a purpose?
Assuming anyone will ever find it -- and I can't see the search engines being any more excited about it than I am -- what are you telling them?
For website to be any good, it has to have content and enough of it to keep people reading and provide some good reason(s) for them to get in touch with you.
In that you're with Royal LePage, why don't you do some browsing of the innumerable excellent websites some fellow agents have? And, if I remember my own time as one of their agents correctly, isn't there a whole service aimed at helping you build a topnotch site of your own?
Right now, though, I can't help thinking that you're simply taking up cyberspace!!

Duncan :(

Canadian Realtor

07-27-2005, 08:20 AM

haha, no hard feelings Duncan.

I am happy to report that you are wrong. That site has been live for less than one month, is posting #1 in MSN for a competetive phrase and has generated 4 solid leads this month.

As for RLP's 'assistance', everything they want cost $$$ for not great work. Just and FYI Duncan, I have worked for 2 of the biggest real estate web designers here in Canada, and all our research shows that people want listings first, community information second and to contact the realtor third.

I appreciate your input, but as for taking about 'cyberspace'... you are wrong, G, MSN and Y! bots are back everyday and big time...

PS: I visited your website... umm, you may want to look at your own website downfalls before harshly (and wrongly) criticizing others... IMO.

Duncan Pollock

07-27-2005, 09:06 AM

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
But no hard feelings on my part, either.

Duncan

Canadian Realtor

07-27-2005, 09:11 AM

I don't think it is a matter of agreeing to disagree... It has produced results when you stated that it wouldn't (and that was the first month). You are the first person to critique it negatively, so maybe that is why I became defensive. I am quite happy with the self design of it. Google is not sandboxing me, which to me means something, and I work hard to make sure the information is what the consumer wants.

frobn

07-27-2005, 09:56 AM

Canadian Realtor

07-27-2005, 10:00 AM

Why do you ask which keywords? Obviously geo-targetted for the Fraser Valley area.

Las Vegas Homes

07-27-2005, 10:07 AM

Rod, I think you have a lot to work on. To point out a few things that I see wrong after just a quick look.

1. Your Title Tag : the by rod I believe hurts your tag in the first position. Plus the domain url being in the second position isnt doing you any good. Also IMHO your title tag is to long.

2. Your alt tag on your photo says Rods business card. Not good, no help to you.

3. The content on the page below your business card doesnt really tell me anything about real estate there. It is information on Soil nutrients , Potter party and so on.

4. The page layout and content below the business card looks very unprofessional from a design point of view.

5. I dont see any H1 or H2 tags that would benefit you.

I am not trying to pick on you but the site would have a lot of work that needs to be done in order to get the rankings in the SEs and keep the attention of prospective buyers or sellers.

You have 10 seconds to get the attention of someone visiting your website. You might be ranking in MSN right now, but MSN at this moment likes new sites and ranks them well for a short amount of time. If you design your site with the consumer in mind and create the content for the consumer and not the SEs you will do well.

frobn

07-27-2005, 10:10 AM

Why do you ask which keywords? Obviously geo-targetted for the Fraser Valley area.

Simple. I am interested in learning what works and what doesn't work. Take a look at some of my posts on here, I share what I learn and I like to hear and discuss other options. I have had many successes but I learn much more from my failures. As to geo-targeted phases all one needs to do is to run it though all the google data centers at mcdar.net.

Canadian Realtor

07-27-2005, 10:16 AM

LVH, as you know, real estate is time consuming... I have not had anytime it the last 3 weeks to make improvements. I believe my SEO skills are as good as about 90% of those out there, so the things you have mentioned have not slipped through the cracks.

The business card was an initial point of contact, and it is not my intention to leave it on there. The content below the card is pulled from the forums to offer a few things... fresh content and relevant information to our community.

As for MSN ranking only new sites... you are wrong, I rank well for a multitude of sites and keyword phrases.

My site needs work, no doubt about it. Whose doesn't? I would like to see someones site who doesn't need work... hehe. I posted this question weeks ago when I had time to work on it and no one responded. It's about time... :)

Las Vegas Homes

07-27-2005, 10:42 AM

It is good that you are offering community information but IMHO, I dont believe this helps you with the SEs that being your main content on the homepage. I would offer the advice of moving that content you have on your homepage from the forums to another page that is about community info.

There is nothing wrong with the business card being there I was only suggesting that you add alt tags that would benefit that card for the SEs. You are right we do stay business with real estate and it is hard to find the time to work on your sites. I can tell you that I have a lot of sites that need work, but I was only posting to offer you my suggestions of what I saw that IMHO was wrong and needed to be corrected.

I also understand that you rank for some phrases, I was suggesting that MSN likes new sites and does rank them well for a short period of time. We all know that MSN likes onpage seo and maybe I am wrong but I did not see a lot of content on your homepage that talks about real estate in your city.

Once again nothing will happen overnight and we all have work that has to be done.

Canadian Realtor

07-27-2005, 10:45 AM

Appreciate that LVH,

I will hopefully find time this weekend...

Jiany

07-27-2005, 12:13 PM

HEY Guys
No need for busting other web site. The truth is that my web site is far better then both of yours. JUST KIDDING :)

Personally I thing that both of you guys have points. But truth be told each potential client is each looking for something different.

My buddy just came back from an internet conference. He told me an interesting point. A web site must focus on one point and one point only. If your site is broad and not specific, you loose the reason for clients to visit your site.
Now Im a beginner in this, but I guess whatever make sense is worth thinking about.
Regards Jiany
PS Does anyone have anything to add?

Canadian Realtor

07-27-2005, 12:38 PM

I think everyone here knows what proper constructive criticism is...

Duncan Pollock

07-27-2005, 07:19 PM

Rod: You asked for a critique and that's what I had the audacity to give you. You don't have to take any notice of it at all, nor am I suggesting, let alone insisting that you do.
However in some support of my points, as well as a few others that subsequent posts have made, take a look at one of your competitor's websites: http://www.todclarke.ca/
I'm not saying that you have to copycat it, but it does show up as the llth site if you do a Google search for "real estate fraser valley" (without the quotes) -- and enough of us KNOW that Google receives more searches than Yahoo, MSN, and Ask Jeeves all put together.
Surely, there's a lesson here that you can ill afford to ignore, isn't there ?

Duncan

PS. At the risk of some hair splitting, forgive me for pointing out that I didn't say your site wouldn't produce results. I merely said that I thought it wasn't well enough designed to do so.
PPS. Despite everything, let's stay cool. The key to the value of this kind of forum is a healthy exchange of views. No one is exactly right, nor is anyone totally wrong. The exercise is intended to share beliefs and opinions and we are all free to accept or reject what we read here. :D

Canadian Realtor

07-27-2005, 07:44 PM

Unfortunately Duncan, with your mention of Tod Clarke's website, I will have to discount your opinion of my design. Using frames in today's day and age is an SEO nightmare.

Not only that, but the massive amounts of images on that page wreaks of old school...

Forcing forms before giving clients access to the listings is a dreadful mistake. I allow for listings and present them with a form. It has proven ideal.

I have no doubts about blowing Tod off the map, once the sandbox let's go. Very few are searching real estate fraser valley.

For the term abbotsford real estate (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=abbotsford+real+estate+&btnG=Search) , my other managed site is posting number 5.

I am sorry Duncan, but I think your thoughts and views on SEO and site design are a little off center. IMO.

HHI Golf Guy

07-27-2005, 07:53 PM

Google is not sandboxing me, which to me means something, and I work hard to make sure the information is what the consumer wants.

What makes you believe that you are not being sandboxed? For example, I searched Abbotsford real estate on Google, and even though there are only 444,000 competing pages (a low amount by SEO competitiveness standards) I don't see you in the top 100. I would love to see some examples of you ranking well for competitive real estate KW's so that I can add them to my analysis list. By competitive real estate KW's I mean that Google shows at least 750k other competing pages.

While it's nice that you are in the top 10 on MSN for that phrase, keep in mind that MSN is only showing 47,000 competing pages (a very, very small number). Either MSN has a better KW relevancy algo or they have not indexed many competing pages at this time. I believe the latter is the situation for most KW's. MSN's proprietary index is still very new.

Regardless, if you have generated leads on MSN that's wonderful. It's even better if those have converted to sales.

BTW, I'm not trying to bust your chops here, Rod. I'm just trying to point out the difference to all readers that there is a big difference between optimizing a web site for competitive KW's and achieving good SERP's and getting good SERP's with minimal or no optimization for non-competitive KW's. Optimizing for competitive KW's is tough and it takes time to achieve results.

I'll give you an example from one of my clients. They rank #7 out of 421k for the phrase 'Spring Island SC real estate'. That's a decent SERP, and it even generates some traffic and leads. But it is not a phrase that I heavily targeted with in-page or off-page SEO.

A web site must focus on one point and one point only. If your site is broad and not specific, you loose (lose sp.)the reason for clients to visit your site.

I almost agree with you on that one. I believe that your real estate web site should target one specific customer demographic. For example, if you are willing to list and sell both $150k homes and $8M homes, it would benefit you to create multiple web sites that focus on each of these customer demographics. It would be extremely hard to develop ad copy that appeals to both customers on the same web site.

frobn

07-28-2005, 05:43 AM

At one time I would critique sites when a request was made but too often the site owner simply wanted verification that they were doing everything right and my good intentions as well as those of others were twisted into something else. However, I will jump into the fray once again. Here are a few things I saw.

The visuals are ok except for the large empty space under the header. You night consider putting the community events into 2 columns which will also lessen the scroll.

Personally, I would not put so much extraneous community data on the front page. In one of your posts you said something about a target audience, I would reason that the front page is where you want to reach out to them with real estate relevant information about the Fraser Valley.

You talked about usability so I took a look at your markup. It is a mixture of xhtml and deprecated html 3 code. While I, personally strive to eliminate tables they are acceptable when coded correctly. I use NVU, a free css/xhtml compliant editor from NVU.org to create and style tables.

Someone already mentioned that you are not using heading tags (h1, h2, h3). When they are used correctly they make it easier for both visitors and SEs to check for relevant content. While not absolutely necessary, you are not presenting your site in the best light without them.

Forums work only when you have a sufficiently large audience to use them. I personally do not like going to a forum and not see any recent posts. Blogs work much better, you can update them once or twice a week and visitors can add comments. I also prefer that the design theme of a site be consistent. Before you check out my sites I admit I have a site with a blog that I have not matched the design because I will be replacing the site design soon.

The IDX/MLS is passable. My preference is for an integrated IDX.

Canadian Realtor

07-28-2005, 06:26 AM

HHI,

What makes me believe that I am not being sandboxed are the referrers from Google for search terms.

For a real estate website, unless you are ABC Real Estate, why would a realtor want to be found for anything not specific to their market? I am not trying to rank for the term 'realtor' etc...

I agree it takes time to get results, unless, your competetive market is not doing anything (which I what I think is happening in my local market) to rank well. I plan to do both, rank well and optimize properly.

I respect all your opinions, and it is tough to read criticism, but I do respect the input. I have not finished my site by a long ways. Many of the points mentioned have not been overlooked.

Just not enough time...

HHI Golf Guy

07-28-2005, 11:08 AM

What makes me believe that I am not being sandboxed are the referrers from Google for search terms.

Again, which phrases are you referring to? If you feel that you are not sandboxed, I would like to track those terms for my own observation.

One thing to remember is that the Sandbox is not instantaneous. On many, many occasions a new site will surface somewhere in the SERP's for a brief period of time (from a few weeks to a few months) and then be placed in the Sandbox for an undetermined time frame.

I respect all your opinions, and it is tough to read criticism, but I do respect the input.

No criticism intended. Someday someone will develop an audio forum so that the readers can here the intonation of each others comments and questions. :)

Jiany

07-28-2005, 01:29 PM

frobn

07-28-2005, 01:55 PM

Is anyone here very savy in optimization?
I have a question. Besides Inputing the right words in the Titel tags, and having specific information in the Meta name tags, having lots os link back, what else can one do to be on top?

Content! Content! Content!

I find it odd that FEW SEOs give more than lip service to having content. Yes, they all talk a good game, but how much effort is expended outside of vocal effort.

HHI Golf Guy

07-28-2005, 02:51 PM

Is anyone here very savy in optimization?
I have a question. Besides Inputing the right words in the Titel tags, and having specific information in the Meta name tags, having lots os link back, what else can one do to be on top?

I could tell you, but then I would have to kill you. :D

There are dozens and dozens and dozens of on-page and off-page factors that can positively or negatively impact your rankings. Many of these are "core" elements that are reasonably stable among the big 3 search engines.

Every website is unique regarding SEO. Different KW's have different levels of competition and the amount of competition for the KW's can influence your SEO strategies. Other items than can influence rankings are the design of your web site, outbound linking strategies, internal linking strategies, navigation structure, inbound link strategies, and many more items.

Content is importartant, but do not be misled by blanket statements that encourage you to keep adding and adding and adding content in hopes of achieving better rankings. Content is not king. Links are not king. It is a symphony of interconnected variables that bring sites to the top for competitive KW's across all of the major search engines at the same time.

The use of KW's including how and where they are used on a single page and throughout the site also play a role in your rankings. Thematically, your site must be consistent.

Once you have all of your ducks in a row, you still need to make sure that your ad copy appeals to your target audience and causes them to take action - especially in real estate.

My advice? Read everything you can and then experiment. At least 50% of what you read about SEO will not work for your site. Some of what you read will be misleading, and some ideas work for one site owner because of the 100+ other things that they have done to SEO and design their web site. That's why I place the tongue in cheek disclaimer in my tag line.

Canadian Realtor

07-28-2005, 05:16 PM

Thanks for jinxing me HHI,

I am now officially in the SB. Are you pals with GG?

:)

PS: I am now very happy for MSN and Y!

HHI Golf Guy

07-28-2005, 06:28 PM

Thanks for jinxing me HHI,

I am now officially in the SB. Are you pals with GG?

LOL!

Nope. Just experienced at this SEO game.

Canadian Realtor

07-28-2005, 06:30 PM

You and I both (I have 4 years experience). I knew I might be SB'd, I have have had 3 sites recently that avoided the sandbox and two that did not. Now, I guess, I am 3 and 3. This one was reflective of the two that were not SB'd so I assumed I was cleared. It may pull out early... only Google knows ;)

Jiany

07-29-2005, 11:35 AM

HHI Golf Guy

07-29-2005, 12:18 PM

Thanks for the tips Golf Guy
I though I knew a little, but I guess I really do not know much at all.
So the secret is the combination of different aspect that make the winning end result. Hmmm. I will try to study what you said in more details. Thanks a million

That's the theory that I go by based upon my knowledge of mathematics and complex algorithms. Do I have an idea of what the Google algorithm is? Nope - not a clue as to the actual algo.

I look at it this way: A search engine algo will place different weights upon the various on-page and off-page factors based upon their existence or absence thereof. I design my sites so that they are functional for the user and they get their message across. From there, I will tweak on page and off page elements for better rankings.