I Like MSN, But...

[HHI Golf Guy]

...they still need some work on their algo. Two of my Hilton Head Island South Carolina sites rank #2 and #3 for "Arkansas real estate".

Here's the kicker - neither of those sites cracks the top 3 pages for "South Carolina real estate" :)

[Real Estate Forum]

this garbage is so scarry http://www.national-real-estate-directory.com/real%2Destate%2Dforum/showthread.php?t=707 I hope they will start to care :cool:

[frobn]

this garbage is so scarry http://www.national-real-estate-directory.com/real%2Destate%2Dforum/showthread.php?t=707 I hope they will start to care :cool:

I agree that MSN has a lot of garbage and you get a few strange results, but not nearly as much as Google. Do a search on Key West Real Estate in both MSN and Google. The top results in Google are mostly destination sites. At least MSN returns real estate sites. Generally I am a fan of Google, but their insistance that they can artificially simulate a natural search doesn't hold up. If they presented their alogos as a first year grad school research paper they would receive an F-.

[HHI Golf Guy]

Do a search on Key West Real Estate in both MSN and Google. The top results in Google are mostly destination sites.

This is a common occurrence in many resort markets. Due to the sheer volume of outbound and inbound links with local sites Google deems them authority sites. Hence, they rank well for most search terms using 'city name'.

[frobn]

This is a common occurrence in many resort markets. Due to the sheer volume of outbound and inbound links with local sites Google deems them authority sites. Hence, they rank well for most search terms using 'city name'.

You just proved my point regarding the relationship between irrelevancy and linking. It's an artificial construct which doesn't hold up in science or the real world. If you think my example is an exception to a rule, browse over to webmaster world and read the thousands of responses to the Bourbon update. Google algos are broken. Instead of worshiping the alogos SEOs should offer valid criticism based on scientific principles.

[HHI Golf Guy]

You just proved my point regarding the relationship between irrelevancy and linking.

No, It was a comment based upon white papers regarding the Google algo. I'm not trying to prove anyone's point here. I am just stating what Google's own experts have commented upon.

...read the thousands of responses to the Bourbon update. Google algos are broken. Instead of worshiping the alogos SEOs should offer valid criticism based on scientific principles.

The Google algos are not broken - they are showing the results that Google wants to show based upon the algo parameters. Does that mean that some crud sites don't get filtered? Yes. Unless there are people hand editing ,illions of key phrases, theresults will always be this way regardless of the algo. The mathematics of algorithms - no matter how complex - do have their limitations.

As far as what "everyone else" is saying on any forum, you need to remember that even if one thousand people are posting on any topic, that still represents only a fraction of the web sites and search phrases.

[frobn]

No, It was a comment based upon white papers regarding the Google algo. I'm not trying to prove anyone's point here. I am just stating what Google's own experts have commented upon.



The Google algos are not broken - they are showing the results that Google wants to show based upon the algo parameters. Does that mean that some crud sites don't get filtered? Yes. Unless there are people hand editing ,illions of key phrases, theresults will always be this way regardless of the algo. The mathematics of algorithms - no matter how complex - do have their limitations.

As far as what "everyone else" is saying on any forum, you need to remember that even if one thousand people are posting on any topic, that still represents only a fraction of the web sites and search phrases.
I can many provide reasons based on research/evaluation studies of how google's alogos fail. I rather doubt it but perhaps they are showing the results google wants and even so the results are frequently irrelevant.

The fact that the alogos can and are being manipulated confounds the results. Every time Google tweaks, which seems to be happening more frequently, they may get rid of some spam, but it also adds additional variables with many additional unintended results. What's the saying, "throw the baby out with the bath water? That some relevant sites come up when searching google does not make their alogos valid. I would say that Yahoo and MSN get it right just as frequently and without all the drama. When MSN throws out garbage we say they need to improve, when google throws out garbage why don't we say they need to improve.

A few thousand complaints out of 100s of thousands of web master shows that the majority have accepted the status quo. Google is counting on that being the case. Now if only MSN and Yahoo will improve!

[HHI Golf Guy]

A few thousand complaints out of 100s of thousands of web master shows that the majority have accepted the status quo. Google is counting on that being the case. Now if only MSN and Yahoo will improve!

The overwhelming majority of web surfers (and web designers) have absolutely no idea about search engine rankings and SEO. Nor do they care.

Yahoo, MSN, and Google build search engines for the mindless masses - not tech people.

[Jade456]

Yahoo, MSN, and Google build search engines for the mindless masses - not tech people.

And with MSN's latest results they are proving your point. Bill better get his act together if he wants to keep any of the momentum they were getting. I can't believe the crap that shows up for searches, it making hotbot look good.

[Real Estate Forum]

The overwhelming majority of web surfers (and web designers) have absolutely no idea about search engine rankings and SEO. Nor do they care.

Yahoo, MSN, and Google build search engines for the mindless masses - not tech people.
I have to so much agree on that. The question is if the results are popular with the average web surfer. Sure there is a lot of spam with affiliate links, but do the searchers really care what they click as long as they get what they were looking for? As long as the search engines feel that the masses are pleased, they won't feel a need to change that :cool:

[frobn]

The overwhelming majority of web surfers (and web designers) have absolutely no idea about search engine rankings and SEO. Nor do they care.

Yahoo, MSN, and Google build search engines for the mindless masses - not tech people.


We seem to be talking about two different things. I agree, web surfers have no clue and don't care but they do care about relevant search results and intelligent web masters do have or should have a clue. Site tutor has it right, the fate of search engines is ultimately in the users hands, if and when users tire of irrelevant results they will abandon the SE whether it be Yahoo, MSN or Google. My best guess is that Google cannot see beyond their obsession with linking. This could easily be their devaluation in the eyes of users, I believe the winner in search engine contest will ultimately be the SE that puts the emphasis on relevant content.

What my feelings and beliefs are and how I react to SEs are based both on what the present situation is and best guesses for the future. I am still new to the game and have had success and failures. I need more of both but I treasure the failures most because I learn the most from them.

[marcinsarasota]

I started a website 3-4 weeks ago to target Bradenton, Florida (www.realestate-bradenton.com). I am already #5 for "Bradenton Real Estate" on MSN. I guess that is ok. Until the next Realtor decides to build a site. Where will I be then?

I still like Google's results better.

[frobn]

I started a website 3-4 weeks ago to target Bradenton, Florida (www.realestate-bradenton.com). I am already #5 for "Bradenton Real Estate" on MSN. I guess that is ok. Until the next Realtor decides to build a site. Where will I be then?

I still like Google's results better.

How long will it be before you are out of the sandbox in Google?

Unless you work for Google you can not know how they obtain their results. If and I say if, google's search results are based on what appears to be Google's obsession with linking then I have more faith in MSN's content oriented approach. My results in MSN have improved along with improvements in content. If someone has better content then they should have a higher rating than mine. Improve your content with Google and it doesn't appear to matter, but go out and trade off some links that add nothing to content and your site is rewarded. Now go ahead and tell me that someone looking to purchase a home in Florida sees a link to a real estate site in Wisconsin goes there and purchases a home in Wisconsin instead. Back to the Google "IF!" SEO behavior based on googles preceived linking obsession is only adding to internet spam. I for one am routing for MS Search's content approach, if they are successful it will make a better internet because it is based on content and not a faulty premise that links=votes for relevance.

[Las Vegas Homes]

frobn I agree with you 100%. Google is to hung up on linking. As an example of how the SEs view relevancy. I have as you all know two new sites for Florida. My Vegas sites because of the BLs to the Florida sites, the Vegas sites rank higher for my Florida primary key phrases than the Florida sites. IMHO this is not relevant results.

I believe one of the Vegas sites is number 37 on yahoo for city plus real estate for the Florida town I am targeting. Because of the age of the site and the weight it holds with Yahoo is ranking above the Florida site and the Vegas site has only anchor text with a little description surrounding it.

[Shimmer]

we were in top 3 inthe first page msn on saturday ...on sunday we weren't on the list.... not even fist 5 pages..
heellppppppppppp.......... :eek:

[MaxSinclair]

Funny that I did a search in Google for "area code look up" and it didn't give me results that I could use. On the other hand, both Yahoo and MSN gave me tons of free area code look up addresses. Go figure! Search results relying on linking alone is really not "that" relevant after all.

[John1]

I did have so many issues with MSN, prefer google

[jennsellsfast]

For some reason, I have 5 #1 rankings on MSN for my markets. MSN is the only search engine that seems to spider all of my subpages quickly. All of the others take a long time. Anyone have any idea?

[John1]

Hmm....good for you, thats realy good ranking in MSN :-)

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[Chief Tutor]

MSN is the newest search engine and they are set up so that they update their search results almost every 5 days. Yahoo takes a little longer and of course Google can take upwards of a year depending on if you are in the sandbox, how long it takes for your links to be validated and seasoned in their algorym etc...

[naix77]

MSN is nice... but the most traffic comes from google.com. At least to my website anyway. How come MSN doesn't index my site as often as google.com does?

[seosusan]

Does anyone really receive any results from their MSN traffic. Probably not..

[Nu-Home-Source-Realty]

Yes this month so far i have over 1000 visit from my number 1 ranking on msn. last month i had 1500 total. For some reason i think that msn is goog in the texas area.

[HHI Golf Guy]

Yes this month so far i have over 1000 visit from my number 1 ranking on msn. last month i had 1500 total. For some reason i think that msn is goog in the texas area.

Do you know the demographic of your visitors? In my experience, older (i.e. mature) computer users are more likely to use the default search options found in Internet Explorer - MSN Live. For example, our site that specializes in Sun City real estate gets most of its referrals from MSN.

[Nu-Home-Source-Realty]

no i dont, i use hittail.com and awstats to track who and where they come from. But it is growing everyday.

[HHI Golf Guy]

no i dont, i use hittail.com and awstats to track who and where they come from. But it is growing everyday.

Obviously, you can't track age demographics from the web site itself. But what about people who make contact with you?

[Nu-Home-Source-Realty]

i would think they are between 25 and 50 and make about 35,000 a year and up and have a 500 credit score and up